Bali Vibes, Miami Roots: How BAYA is Redefining the Landscape Resort – Ben Wolff #79

Close your eyes and imagine 25 acres of lush tropical fruit trees. You hear the rustle of palms and the sound of water trickling into a grotto carved from natural coral limestone. You'd swear you were in the heart of Bali... but you're actually just outside of Miami. Today, we're going behind the scenes of BAYA, a brand-new landscape resort that isn't just opening doors; it's defining an entirely new category of hospitality. I'm joined by co-founder Ben Wolf to discuss the 'spark' moment on this land, the challenge of building an elite team, and how they are weaving wellness rituals directly into the earth. If you've ever wondered what it looks like to dream big and build differently in unique outdoor hospitality and luxury glamping stays, this conversation is for you. Bali Vibes, Miami Roots: How BAYA is Redefining the Landscape Resort - Ben Wolff Today’s episode is brought to you by Sarah Riley, a UK-based expert who helps people start and grow profitable glamping and unique holiday rental businesses. designed to help you redefining a landscape resort. Listen to this and previous episodes here: ____________________ Get in touch with Sarah Riley Glamping, retreats, events, and guest attraction - Courses. Guided Growth. Done-for-You Marketing. 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Inspired Camping TRANSCRIPTION Ben, thank you so much for joining me today. It's really lovely to have you here because I could not resist, but get in touch and ask you about your new project because I've seen it talked about on the internet and I was like, okay, I need to hear about this one. It sounds really interesting. So what's the vision for BAYA and what immediately clicked for you and made you say. Yes. To partnering with Steve and others on this project. Yeah. So it, it's been an evolution. I wouldn't say it was an immediate yes. And I can break down that story a little bit, but I met Steve on his podcast, actually. Oh. And you know, really liked him at that time. We had a great episode and stayed in touch. I, I've gone to a bunch of conferences. Speaking or otherwise in Miami and, and we often bump into each other, and I've been dreaming about doing this tropical landscape resort style concept for, I mean, almost five years now. I have a partner in Oasis, my hotel marketing and management business who has a direct to consumer exotic fruit business and had a farm outside of San Diego and. With all these exotic fruit trees and just, you know, beautiful sort of farm agritourism kind of vibes. And I remember we were talking about it back in 2021, that why is there not this exotic fruit forest tropical style? Landscape hotel in the US right? You have to go to Bali or Costa Rica or Tulum, right? You, you have to go to these far off places to, to have this experience and there's no reason we can't create this in Florida or in certain parts of Southern California. So I, I wanted to do it since then and in early 24, I thought I found the right partner to do it in Florida. That we sort of pursued that for a couple months, didn't end up being the right fit. I had stayed in touch with Steve. He already had this 25 acre exotic fruit farm in Redland through a family friend that he was going to lease the land. And at the time I was a little concerned about land lease. Every project I've done, we've owned the dirt. And, you know, investing millions and millions of dollars into improvements. Like I've, I've always felt much more comfortable owning the land. So we kept in touch, his concept was like a little more glamping, a little more rustic but kept in touch. Really wanted to find a way to work together in some capacity. And then who I was going to be working with, like that didn't pan out for the project in Florida. So Steve hit me up in November of last year and said that they got their zoning verification letter to pursue the project. I ended up going out to the site in January and was really blown away by the property really, and that, that's that, along with Steve and sort of his execution over that year to get. Entitled, not fully entitled, but have a zoning approval to do, to do what he wanted to do. Was enough for me to say maybe we should do this together and combine visions. And we both have personal brands. We both have networks. So felt like doing it together would just be, I. A massive success. So I brought in my GC and co-developer banks Chisholm, who has developed the last two on error properties. He is a, a GC Unicorn, comes in on time, on budget. Cool. I don't think I'll ever, yeah, I don't think I'll ever wanna work with anybody else again. So brought, flew him in, flew in a modular manufacturing partner who you may know actually. He's done a lot with the glamping show. I feel like in years past. Ed Haynes, EJH. Yeah, so, so we brought Ed in as well 'cause we wanted to do the project modular and, and we basically knocked out partnership terms in a matter of a few days. So that's, that's kinda the story of how it came together. And super excited about the team and this concept. I've seen the pictures. They're really interesting. So what is it about that land that really stood out for you? What was the, the moment that it kind of shifted from, you know, actually this, this could be really good. Let's, let's do this venture. Yeah. So I mean, look, they have. 25 acres of these mature exotic fruit trees. So, you know, long in lechy, Mame, sapo, like just these beautiful, mature trees that would take years to, to get to that level of growth. They have giant palms, you know, in, in, in a couple of different areas. One is the entryway, which is kind of grandiose, you know, sort of lined with giant palms and other, other tropical plants. And then there's this area that has a cluster of giant palms with other vegetation that's kind of grown in between it, you know, other tropical looking vegetation. And so that starts to create the jungle vibe that we're looking to create for where at least some of the bungalows are gonna go very, like tucked into the tropics. So it, it already had. You know, maybe 60, 70% of the way there. And we knew that through nearby nurseries and there's actually a nursery that's renting part of the property right now. We could buy their inventory. And these types of tropical plant plants actually grow faster than other, you know, types of grow zones and, and, you know, other climates. So we can really supplement and turn it into a jungle. So that was, that was a piece of it. What was already on the property, the, the amount of like mature growth trees that they already had. In addition to that, just below the surface is white coral limestone. I. So an inch or two below the surface, you have this like white coral limestone that can make for the, the base of a grotto that we can very easily create. So we can make private grottos, we can make like a big lagoon with crystal clear blue water for the entire property. And so that's like highly unique Instagramable, you know, something that people haven't really seen before outside the, you know, inside the us for the most part. So, yeah, it was, it was the combination of those things and just walking it with Steve, seeing our visions come together, seeing the excitement of other people on my team in terms of doing, doing this project and creating this vision. So all those things together made it a, an easy yes. Hmm. Almost like worlds collided at the right time, so, exactly. What about you talk about, and Steve talks about Bayer being something the US has never seen before. So you've mentioned their grottos and in the UK we have a lot of grottos. We're actually, a lot of our stately homes have grottos. It's something that was very popular back in the Victorian times, really elaborate underground or, you know, built into cave systems. And they're very magical. They're very special, especially if you marry them up with something like wellness or yoga or some kind of, you know, mystical thing as well. What else is it about Bayer that's gonna make it really special and unique? Is it the designs of the actual property? How, what are you thinking there in terms of what you're going to do? Yeah, so we're, we're, we're gonna be doing modular and we're gonna customize to some extent in an existing modular manufacturer that we've been talking to quite a bit. Not finalized, but, but we have our eyes set on one that. Produces these beautiful organic shaped units really that almost look like a flower pedal or a, you know, something, something organic, certainly from a drone shot and, and from the, the ground, you know, view as well. But of course, floor to ceiling glass, sort of overlooking the nature, overlooking the grotto, the, the tropical vibe. But really that organic shape with curves. That sort of mimics some of the vegetation that we'll have on site, I think is really gonna be, be a special experience for people. We're calling them bungalows, so think like Bali style bungalows or Tulum or Costa Rica, but, but in Florida and, and tucked into this, this jungle vibe. I think other differentiators, the grottos for sure. And just how crystal clear blue and vibrant blue the water will be because of the white coral bottom. And, and still achieving that very natural look is, is, I think, gonna be special and, and quite unique. Outside of that, it's blending the agritourism right there. There's other agritourism properties and, and focused, you know, hotels in the US but not really of this like exotic fruit variety tropical farm in, in the us. So I think that's gonna be very unique. We'll have farm tourisms and experiences, you know, cooking classes that use the. The local you know, fruit on site to, to create various dishes. We'll have a, a farm to table cafe and juicery you know, light bites held forward, but using a lot of the, the fruit that we'll ha have on property, I. And there will be a wellness, a heavy wellness component as well. A lot of it'll be self-serve amenities. So sauna, cold plunge, we'll have the lagoon. We'll have a multipurpose room so we can do yoga classes, you know, it could be used for a, a corporate retreat or a mastermind or something like that as well. So. We we're gonna have this combination of wellness agritourism, you know, tropical and really jungle vibes that you don't typically see in the us. And then of course, unique inspiring units, which, which I always try to do with our properties. I. Very Instagrammable. Lots of selfies going on. I can just see it. And So what is it you think about wellness? So clearly wellness is a huge industry. It's growing massively. It's got so much potential. I. Do you think it's really important for new properties, new sites, new businesses, large and small, to bring in some kind of wellness element? So if it's a very small two people may be running a business and they've only got a few units, then clearly they could have retreats. So retreat events, which could be during the downtime. Then obviously for bigger properties like the one we're talking about now at Bayer, that's going to be more spa, wellness, yoga, all these other activities that you're talking about. How is important, is that going forward as we go forward through the future of hospitality, let's say? Yeah, I mean, look, I think wellness tourism is still growing across close to 10% a year. It's one of the biggest, fastest growing tourism segments. Something like projected to hit. It's a massive number. I think it's like 2 trillion by 2032, which is just mind-boggling. Mm-hmm. I think, I think it is what people want today and increasingly what people want. I feel like longevity, biohacking, wellness is like new status symbols and, and just things that people are increasingly interested in. So if you can interweave that into your travel and hotel experience, then I just think it's a, it's a big differentiator. It's a big value add. And, and there's a difference right between. Slapping a sauna or a plunge or something like that at your property, which I do think has value. Like there's definitely value in that. And then really going all in on more immersive wellness experiences that are more cohesive with the the rest of the experience and the rest of the concept, which is what we're trying to go for with baa. So hopefully, you know, that'll, that'll fully come through in all of our programming. So yeah, there's varying degrees, but I think, I think at minimum, even with a small property, like no reason not to include a sauna, ideally something like a plunge as well. The question often becomes like, do you do private amenities? Do you do communal amenities? And that's where I think a good, a good mix of both is a good strategy. So you have some premium units that have private. You know, wellness amenities potentially. And then you can also have a really, you know, cool communal area that, that everybody can use and that has multiple wellness type features. But it does depend how many keys you have. You know, what's your a DR potential, all all those sorts of things that are gonna help determine what makes sense. And what is it about the immunities in, in terms of what do you think are the most important? Immunities for the customer. Now what's their priority? So we've seen all kinds of different things come and go. Different types of hot tubs, you know, private areas like you say, but actually some surprising things as well, like the ev charging point and things like that, which are now so important to a lot of people with electric vehicles. What would you say is a prime kind of driver in this part of the US for immunities in properties like yours? Yeah, prime drivers. I mean, look, our, our cedar hot tubs and, and sort of how those have evolved have been hugely successful for us. And I think there's been a lot of, you know, copycats out there with that type of amenity just 'cause it is so Instagrammable, it, it looks so beautiful. It's got a, a relaxing, you know soaking. Element, you know, and, and soaking is a growing trend in addition to more traditional hot tubs. So I think that that's, that's certainly an easy one that, that I know is tried and tested and, and does, you know, increase performance and increase, you know, the, the people that wanna share them on social media and help kind of drive that, that word of mouth marketing. And peer-to-peer marketing. Yeah. Outside of that, I would say that I think saunas are a big one. I think a lot of people want sauna today. And, and that paired with a, a cold plunge I think is, is a great combination that more and more places are offering. I. And a ton of people are, are using that as a wellness routine nowadays. So I think having it on property is a big differentiator. Outside of that, you know, it's property specific. I, I, I do think that agritourism and, and sort of farm experiences is something else that's really booming and people are really loving those types of, you know, get, get back to the earth, get back to, you know, understanding how things are grown and, and grown sustainably, and grown the right way. And, and how do I incorporate this into my my own sort of daily life, even when I leave? So I think that that's something that's, I. That's growing at a, at a pretty incredible clip. It's not as big as wellness today, but it is. I think it's got like a 12% annual growth rate. I mean, it's, it's already a hundred billion dollar business and growing. So those two are, are top of mind for me. And, and that's why we're, we're doing what we're doing with baa. Mm. So you talk about agri tourism there. I mean, that's really interesting at the moment. There's so many documentaries that have been on that topic, so it's kind of generated this worldwide interest in how our food has grown, where it's coming from, how far it travels, all of those things. Do you think that you'll be tapping into the ecotourism market because of this? And, and if you are, what kind of sustainability things are you thinking about across the property? I. I think we will in, in some ways for sure. I, I, I think that the, the biggest target will be around sustainable food, organic farming, you know, that, that side of things. And really the sustainability of, I. Farming. Right. That, that's one of the big things that we are, I think, helping provide with, with baa. So where we're building this property, land values are going through the roof. I mean, this property is probably worth at least 5 million and probably more. And so it's actually one reason that the, the land lease that we've, that we're, that we're acquiring on the property is so attractive. It allows us to come in at a price point that. Still allows the project to make economic sense with 20 units. If we didn't have the land lease and we were trying to buy it and, and get a mortgage on it the project probably wouldn't pencil with that few keys we have to do something much bigger scale, much bigger hotel. It wouldn't be as boutiquey, it wouldn't be as one of, you know, one of a kind and unique in my mind. So it, the, the, the land lease structure and sort of partnering with the farmer is what makes it work. And then on their side of things. You know, they're having to really think seriously about, do we have to sell this farm? Even though they don't want to, their property taxes are going through the roof, they can make so much more money just selling it to a, a, a big suburban developer you know, like Dr. Horton or something like that. Right? So, I. They're having to have those tough decisions. They don't wanna do that. They'd like to keep the general, a generational asset in the family and, and not sell. Which is why the land lease, you know, with us, is attractive. But their, their alternative, I mean, they're se they're renting right now a couple of acres to a nursery for like a few hundred bucks a month. Like it's not moving the needle. Whereas we can generate for them hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. So it actually makes sense to maintain the property and keep farming. Hmm. It's always been something that even on a small scale, glamping has been used. And I know this is different to glamping, this is resort. Mm-hmm. And this is very experiential and, but glamping traditionally has been used to be able to make farming more viable. Mm-hmm. For want of a better word. Which is such a sad thing because farming should be viable. It should be really, really healthy and pro. Profitable for the owner, but it so often isn't so it's just really great news to hear that that's happening because otherwise, you know, it would be overdeveloped that bit of land 'cause they'd have to go down that line. Yeah. So you've already attracted some strong investors and are you completely secured with that now or are you still looking for investment? I guess it'll depend when this'll air whether or not we're still looking for investors. But as of today June 27th of 25, we, we are still looking for some investors, but we're the maj, we're majority subscribed, right? We opened our investor portal a couple weeks ago. We've had a ton of interest. We're still talking to a nu number of people, right? A couple of weeks isn't a ton of time to make a big investment decision. So we are potentially gonna have some folks. That, that come into the deal in the next couple weeks. But we will have a close next week. It will be for a very likely well over half if not closer to 60, 70% of the raises. So yeah, we feel really good about where we're at and can see the light at the end of the tunnel, which is, you know, not an easy thing to say. As I'm sure you know, in today's day and age the last couple years been very hard to raise capital. So one reason that I, I, I brought in. Couple different partners that could help on the raising front for this project, and wanted to really just focus on bio even though I have a ton of other projects that have been sent my way and that I've, I've tried to get pulled into. This is really the one that I believe in, I believe investors will be passionate about and, and, and wanna put their, their money behind. And that's been the case so far. So. Hmm. You've definitely got a ton of juggling balls in the air. Yeah. Yeah. But this, this is the one, this is the one development, right? That's like. In pre-development stage and capital raising stage, like everything else, you know, we just opened up on narrow Fredericksburg expansion and that's been funded for years. Right. And, and we just had to get it across the finish line. So BAA is what I'm putting my full weight behind moving forward on the development side. So, I mean, you, you touched on there that actually getting investment's been really tricky because of everything that's been going on in the world over the past few years and it's just been this perfect storm which has created particularly the fact that the interest rates have been slightly higher. So investors have been able to get good rates in the bank rather than putting their money into risky projects. However. Do you think that that's starting to ease a little bit? So people who have been looking for investment and they haven't been able to get it, do you think that that's getting a bit easier now? I do think it's better today than a year ago. Mm. I think a year ago was one of the worst times that I've ever seen. Still pre-election, just election years are always, for the US always particularly challenging to raise money. Just because of the uncertainty. Yeah. No matter which way it goes. So that was, and, and rates were through the roof and there was less of a I, I think that like. There was more movement with rates. We've been a little more stable. We've been coming down a little bit, even though it hasn't been material. So it just feels like there's a little bit more stability. But then, I mean, you throw kind of massive tariffs in the mix. Mm-hmm. And some new things that have happened in the last couple of months. We're, we're right, we're right back into that sort of challenging environment. A lot of money on the sidelines. People are kind of seeing how things are gonna shake out, so man will be a breath of fresh air when capital's flowing. Again, everybody feels more optimistic and less sort of concerned about volatility. So we're not quite outta the woods yet, but I would say it's better than a year ago. Do you think that everything happening with AI is also bringing in a little bit of uncertainty? People dunno where we're going with this. Obviously there's some positives and it's gonna really be helpful and make businesses efficient, but there's also big question marks about actually what does this mean for our future? And certainly investors might be thinking about where do I put my money, where it's going to be safest. Have you got any thoughts around ai? Look, we're, we're leveraging AI as much as we can. I have a content and marketing side of the business that may look entirely different in six months. I mean, it's already changing quite a bit. We're testing quite a bit with AI video and we wanna be on the forefront of that. I think it's an amazing innovation, what we can do there, and how it democratizes the ability to story tell at scale. Right. It democratizes the ability, like I don't, I don't need a, a massive production crew and multiple shoot days and all the rest to produce a really compelling piece of content. And that's only gonna continue to get, to get easier and, and faster. So we're pushing the envelope on that for sure. I actually think that. Travel, hospitality, glamping hotels are well positioned, at least as well positioned as any industry could be for this AI revolution because people are still gonna wanna go places. I, I would think, in the flesh. Who knows, maybe everybody's just like zoning out at their house in vr, but I, I like to think that, that there will still be. An interest in actually going to real places and staying, you know, in, in, in authentic, you know, true, like in real life experiences. So, so, because of that, and, and I also wonder, I mean, you push it to the limit. Are we gonna get that much more efficient? Is there gonna be something like universal income down the line? Like, you know, is every person. Going to be that much more productive. Right. And, and, and if, if that becomes the case, the work week gets shorter, right? Leisure and entertainment become even more important to people. So I think in a lot of ways, travel and hospitality is very well positioned. In terms of your question around, do I think that that's like causing people to put money on the sidelines? I don't. I mean, I think like. If you know the, the whole thing with tariffs didn't happen. If interest rates weren't, you know, so crazy high, some of the highest they've been in decades that money would be flowing. Like I think something like AI gives people. There's always caution and question, but more optimism and exuberance about the future and what's possible than you know, I guess the counterbalancing concern of, of what that means to the future in terms of like, unknown. Hmm. When someone is starting a new project, whether that's just thinking it up, writing the business plan, getting the investment, or actually putting, you know, a spade in the ground and starting to dig. There's a lot of mindset issues that go on, a lot of mindset things. Doubt, worry, concern, am I doing the right thing? It's, it's kind of like post project remorse. You start your project and am I doing the right thing? So have there been any unexpected lessons or mindset sh set shifts that you have? Experienced while you've been going through your various projects, particularly by, Yeah. So I would say that yes, I have a doubt most days about something, and I think that's very, definitely healthy. Probably when I've made my biggest mistakes is when I didn't have a healthy sense of doubt around things and, and question question what we're doing? Is it the right thing in, in every business, every development that that I've been a part of and. And I think that like, pulling in other people from the team, getting different perspectives and, and really collaboratively trying to problem solve is gonna lead to, to the best solutions and the best outcomes. And we've, we've done a great job of that at bias so far. I would say that by and large you know, knock on wood, things have gone relatively smoothly for us. We, we, we made forged this partnership in January, February and we are, you know, we got all of our docs together, got the concept dialed in, you know, got ready to raise, started raising, you know, basically beginning of beginning to middle of June in earnest. And things have gone pretty well so far. So, i'm sure we will hit a snag. We always, always do in every project, and that's one of the reasons I'm so excited about the team that we have. It's just, it's a breath of fresh air working with, with with everybody who's on the team. Steve Banks, you know, Steve's partner, Victor Brian who's, who's come in recently as you know, more on the capital raising and investor rave, investor relations side of things, who's been wonderful to work with and is super passionate about the concept. So just having everybody. So passionate, aligned, collaborative project first, not ego or individual person first has been really, really great. So I have full faith. Regardless of what comes along, we will collectively come together to figure it out. And that's, I. That's what I mean, man banks and myself in the past couple of narrow projects, we have had some, some dark days. We've gone through a debt crisis when we had our, you know, 15 plus million dollars loan get pulled out from underneath us, four oh narrow wimberly and then had to scramble to find a new source of financing and debt. We have had concerns around. Various aspects of budget that we've been able to navigate and still come in on time and on budget. Sometimes with, you know, working 80 to a hundred hour weeks at the end with, with massive crews, kind of just, just going above and beyond to get projects done on time. But we've, we've found a way to, to make it happen. And I, I have found that the, if, if, if everybody on the team is passionate about. The product and the vision and what you're creating, and it's a good collaborative environment. You can get through almost anything. Mm-hmm. Sounds like you've got some unicorns on your team and that's something very special. So, I mean, it just sounds like you've had so much on your plate. And am I right in thinking that you've got quite a young family as well? I mean, how do you juggle it all? Yeah. Yeah. I got two kids four and, and eight months. Oh, very small. Yeah. So we are, we are in the thick of it. Yeah, how to juggle it all. I get up earlier than I ever have, but I'm a morning, I'm a morning person, so I, I do I do like getting up early and I cherish that time from, you know, four or 5:00 AM until 8:00 AM before anybody's really up and moving around. So I get a lot done, a lot of deep work, a lot of strategic thinking done at that time. Catching up. Sort of framing out what, what's most important to get done in a given day? I have phenomenal people on my team, various teams, right? And Anasi have an incredible co-founder and, and incredible, you know, team members there. Have GC and co-developer banks, Chisholm and his company JB Chisholm, that are just really unbelievable in terms of what. What they're able, the output and the diligence and yeah, just how accountable and, and responsible they are to making sure we have successful, successful projects. So I think that that allows me to do a lot more. If I was just doing stuff myself, there's no way I could handle half of what. What we're doing now. Mm-hmm. But yeah, on the family side, I get up earlier, try to get home, you know, 6, 6 30 have dinner, spend time with, with my wife and kids before bedtime. I will say that like I. My second child I have such a different experience in his infant hood, I guess, you know, his baby period. Because for, for various health reasons, my wife didn't end up breastfeeding. And so I'm so much more involved. Yeah. And, and, so much. Like I feel like I was so expendable with my first child for the first like two years of life. And so not the case with my second, like, I often put him to bed. More often than not I put him to bed. He's on the first one he sees when he wakes up in the morning. And he has been even at eight months, a very grounding presence. And he's very. My, my first is like a whirlwind. So much energy, like always moving. He's super funny, charismatic, like really good at getting what he wants sometimes to a fault, so that's challenging. But my second is a lot more mild mannered, grounding, just super sweet. And yeah, he's been honestly, he's like helped me. I feel like, as much as, as I've helped him probably in this first eight months with how much I've had going on. So it's a special thing. Oh, wow. It actually sounds like mirror image of my girls. What? My eldest who's. Full of energy, full of beans, just like a whirlwind. And my youngest, who is almost like an old soul who's been here before and she's so grounding and she's so great. Yeah. Yeah. Mirror image. That's so amazing. So looking ahead at this industry and kind of the broader hospitality industry in the USA, 'cause I don't expect you to answer for Europe and and the UK and things like that, but in the USA, where do you think it's going and what are you thinking it's going to be doing? Are we in the right area? Are we going to be seeing more experiential? Are we gonna see more boutiquey? Are we gonna see more niche? And and particularly like things like hotels. Where do you think they're going to be moving? Are they moving into this space too? I mean, what are your thoughts on all of this? Everybody's trying to do experiential. They know that's what people want. They know that's like where the puck is going. Authentic, unique, novel experiences like that leave you with stories to tell. That's what people want. And that's, I think that's what people have always wanted. It's just that we, we've, we've started to push the envelopes envelope more on the hotel and hospitality side, I think, to, to create just. These wow worthy moments and, and stories. So I do think that will continue. Yes, the big brands, the institutional players are, are trying to figure out how to replicate and scale the success of some of these experiential boutiquey operators. And the big challenge for them is like. How do you buy these? Try to scale them and not just entirely muck it up with your big cogs and wheels and, and just your very slow moving entity that isn't innovation first isn't like. Let's dream up something amazing and kind of figure it out later if something doesn't work. Like they're, hung up on sometimes, right? Like, oh, does, you know and, and we, we struggle with this, with our institutional partner sometimes. It's like, you know, do we have a five year warranty on the on, on the F, f and E? And it's like. If you want something, one of a kind and that, that feels authentic and, and has very interesting and unique design and really pops off the page, then like, you gotta compromise in certain spots. So you don't end up looking like every other Marriott or, or Hampton Inn or, or whatever, you know, the, the sort of big, brand or flag is like, we don't wanna look like the same hotel in every market, right? Because that's the supplier that has the warranty, that's, you know their preferred partner and all the rest. So I think that's where they're gonna struggle is how do you. Continue to, to lean into like the au authenticity, the uniqueness, the bespoke ness that makes these properties and, and this type of hospitality, experiential, hospitality, so powerful. Like how do you do that and, marry it with a culture that is laser focused on, in some ways uniformity and brand consistency and doing things one specific way all the time. So , it's tough. Like that's a, I don't know how they're gonna do that. Mm. And they're gonna be like an oil tanker as well. You know, it takes a long time to turn, especially when it comes to things like AI and SEO and all that kind of good stuff. If you wanna leave one last. Snippet of advice for the audience in terms of if they were thinking of getting into this space and they're a little bit excited about what experiential hospitality is all about, what would you say? It's not for the faint of heart. It's really hard, but it is so worth it. So if you feel like you have the grit, you have the passion to sort of carry you through some dark days and the perseverance, then go for it because I have found something that I truly love to do in developing these, one of a kind experiential properties and it's been really hard, but it's been worth it. Thank you for your time today. Really appreciate it. I know how busy you are. Thanks, Sarah.

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