If you get an opportunity to speak to someone with a birds-eye-view of the luxury camping industry in the Americas, what do you ask them, especially during a pandemic? This is the opportunity I had this week.
Glamping Show USA And The Americas
In this episode, David Korse gives his perspective of the industry, trends and his view of the current situation with the health crisis.
If you want to attend, David has given podcast listeners a lovely little discount: INSPIREDSAVE50
Additional Resources And Links Mentioned
- The Glamping Show USA Discount Code: INSPIREDSAVE50
- Tools and resources in the Inspired Courses VIP Lounge
- Contact Sarah Riley through Inspired Courses
- The Ultimate Glamping Business Guide
- Guest Booking Success Marketing Masterclass
- The Glamping Business Facebook Group (+ Unique Holiday Rentals)
- How To Start A Glamping Business
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SARAH RILEY: If you get an opportunity to speak to someone who has a bird’s eye view of the glamping and luxury camping industry in the Americas, what do you ask them? What do you want to find out, especially after the health crisis? Welcome to episode 32.
SARAH RILEY: Glamping and unique holiday rentals are surging in popularity with the growing desire of customers to book holidays that deliver inexperience. They are also the new business of choice for those wanting to improve their work-life balance. So how do you build a strong business like this that gives you the life you need and a great investment? I’m Sarah Riley and I want to share what I’ve discovered after being immersed in this industry for over 20 years, to inspire you to find out more about what’s going on. Welcome. This is the business of glamping and unique holiday rentals. Hello. Hello, and thank you so much for joining us.
SARAH RILEY: It’s wonderful to have you here as always. I’m incredibly grateful for your company and for all the wonderful reviews you’ve been leaving me. It’s so lovely to have them because it inspires me to keep finding people to interview and to bring you great content. So keep it coming. And also, if you have any suggestions on content you want to hear, I’ve always got my suggestion box open and I’m all ears. Definitely interested to hear what you’ve got to say. So today I’m interviewing David Korse. He heads up the glamping show, U S. Now there’s two parts to it. There’s a glamping show in the UK, which is going to happen in September this year, and also the glamping show in the US which is happening in October. I am very lucky to be involved in both and I have been involved in both since the very beginning since they were just a concept on the drawing table.
SARAH RILEY: So it’s fantastic to see them grow so much as the industry expands. So I took the opportunity while I could to get David on a call and speak to him about his perspective of the industry, how it’s fairing post-COVID, how it’s growing in the wake of the demands that the millennial traveller is putting out there for all of us to meet. And really just to give us a bit more information about how he can help those businesses and individuals who want to get involved in this industry. So without further ado, I’m going to hop over to the interview.
SARAH RILEY: Now people in your position are in the most fortunate position, you get to hear so many different things from so many different perspectives, and it means that you’re able to learn quicker almost than people who are maybe in their particular niche. You know, you have a central hub of information coming to you. Is that something that you think that you’ve picked up as well
DAVID KORSE: I think so. We don’t have a personal perspective because of the product or service that we’re involved with. We are not a structure manufacturer. We’re not a resort operator. We’re sort of, kind of a voyeur of the industry. We get to see both sides, the buyer and seller side from their perspectives. It’s very convenient, 50,000 foot look down, on the market and without, without skin in the game, I guess, without a need to reinforce a particular point of view, it lets us be more agnostic. which is why it’s a little easier for us perhaps to organize a conference program because we can identify things that are an active concern or being discussed regularly by both sides. So, yeah, it does.
SARAH RILEY: So what is your perspective of the industry at the moment, the glamping industry, and I think more so because you’ve been involved in this pre-COVID, pre-health crisis, and now, and we’ll talk about the impact the health crisis is having on you at the moment, but first of all, what’s your view of the industry as it’s going at the moment.
DAVID KORSE: I think everybody had to take a very serious pause, for COVID as it overtook everything. first thing was surprised in shock and fear. I suspect the second thing was, Oh my goodness, what is this going to do to my business and my business life or my investment. so I have a job. Do I have to keep them, employ people, all of the things that as business people, we have to consider as people and as employees or employers, I guess? it was interesting from the manufacturer side, people that most of the infrastructure side, we have a lot of, of tent manufacturers here in the States, as you would expect. and they have never been so busy. some of them have redeployed their assets. So we have some manufacturers who began making masks and personal protection equipment, and I’ve found other ways either to keep busy or to keep their businesses going during that time out while everybody was just restricted indoors.
DAVID KORSE: And I think we had perhaps a little bit more of that here than in some places. however, once people were start got the opportunity to start sticking their nose outside the, again, there was a desperate demand for people who want to get out of the house and do something, but going to a hotel was not high on the list. Getting on an aeroplane wasn’t necessarily very high on the list. The idea of being private and separated with social distancing in a glamping environment, or just camping in general or a recreational vehicle was very high on the list. So there is a pent up demand, I think, from traditional campers and the glamours of wanting to return, because it was more, it was safer to do that than going to Disney World or wherever else they might want to do. There’s also been a pent up demand from people who’ve never done this before.
DAVID KORSE: We’ve been hearing from several operators that they are getting people that never would have come before, who have suddenly discovered the opportunity for you find time for the family to be together, kind of isolated, but still being taken care of and enjoying nature and the environment and the things around them. so right now all of our manufacturers are really busy, fulfilling orders. And, our, our tour operators, our visitors, our site operators are dealing with large crowds of people as best they can. In some cases, their capacity has been somewhat restricted. their timing is certainly been restricted. it takes a full 24 hours to thoroughly disinfect and to clean the site. so instead of having seven days out of seven available for occupancy with a quick turn, if somebody is only there three days, that’s a four-day window that’s gone. And if somebody is there for two more days, that’s only five days at the seven where there’s been occupancy. So other things to deal with. but glamping is really, really popular right now from a large cross-section of people. Then usually we’d be taking a look. So it’s a silver lining. It’s a very dark COVID cloud.
SARAH RILEY: Yeah, absolutely. And it is a bit of a dark cloud, isn’t it But it’s really interesting. Some of the things that you said that David was really interesting. It brought back a few memories of when I visited you last year in the US and I was there for your Show in Denver. And, it’s I spoke to a few people while travelling around, you know, we were in Uber’s and I always take the opportunity to speak to people. And I always bring up glamping. And I remember speaking to someone who was a Mountaineer and he was talking about all the different peaks in Denver and climbing the peaks. And he was a great adventurer. And, I said to him, have you ever heard of glamping And he was like, Oh, what’s that And I explained what it was and he kind of was, Oh, what’s the point in that?
SARAH RILEY: You know, I expect to be out in nature. But then when I took a bit of time and I explained to him, well, this actually means that you’re climbing the peaks, your wife and your children are in luxury, really enjoying some holiday time together, you know, in a really comfortable and luxurious and warm environment. And you could see the, the light bulb went on a little bit for him. And he said, yes. Now that’s interesting. Cause he could see that he could do all the adventuring without having to worry about his family. So obviously we’re seeing a huge change because of what’s happening with COVID. Maybe people are understanding more of the options available to them and all of those kinds of things. Do you think that that’s something that people have more of a grasp on now, the understanding of what glamping is, what luxury camping is and the benefits that can bring to them
DAVID KORSE: I think it’s growing Sarah. I think there is a giant percentage of, of the US population that has no idea what we’re talking about. It has, to ask for a definition of the term, but my experience has been identical to what you just described. Someone will say, well, what’s that never heard of that before And when you explain it, you can see the light bulb go off, you could see the interest rising. One of the things. And I don’t know a lot about all of the glamping opportunities in the UK clearly. but we have a lot of sites here that have nothing to do with the tradition we’re in the Rocky mountains. We’re in Yosemite National Park. just up the coast here from us on, Southern California, not too far from Santa Barbara, which is about 90 miles North of Los Angeles, North and West of LA.
DAVID KORSE: And one of the very, very popular places that sort of spurred a whole business here is people who just took some old travel trailers. the ones here are called Airstream is, you know, I know, you know, they, they all aluminium polished like a bullet going down the road, which had been around forever. I mean the forties or fifties, and just put some refurbished Airstreams together and made them kind of cool and campy, but they were overlooking the ocean in the city and they weren’t, they weren’t in a beautiful mountainside someplace. There were no trees. It just was a really unusual way of staying rather than a typical hotel or motel or whatever. there was the site in New York City, on Roosevelt Island, I think it’s a community with, to, I just, you’re in the middle of New York City. but you’re outdoors.
DAVID KORSE: It’s a very different environment that we think about. So I think the definition of glamping, is being pushed and expanded. The envelope is being, opened up a little bit each day. As people find different ways of offering an outdoor hospitality alternative to what has existed previously. And I think as glamping redefines itself and expands, it just opens it up to be more interesting to more people who hear the word amping as in the campaign and immediately tune it out, thinking I don’t want to sleep on the ground. I don’t want to be looking for a bathroom. I don’t want to, I don’t want him to do any of that or I’ve passed. That was fine 30 years ago, but not so much now. So it’s still an amazing education opportunity. It’s kind of a shame there isn’t really an organization or organizations here, and I’m not sure how it is in the UK that just getting together and putting the funds into educating people about what the opportunity is. I think it’s just going to grow a lot as people discover it organically.
SARAH RILEY: Absolutely. I agree. And I’m actually doing a bit of research around millennials and how millennials are adjusting our travel trends because of what they actually want out of life. And one of those things, is, you know, different things to spend money on experiences rather than spending money on traditional things like mortgages and all that kind of thing. And they like to be nomadic and to move around. And I think one of the things that, you know, this whole industry does allow is for, for that to happen. And therefore the millennials who are primary spenders of today and travel have all of those things within this industry. So that’s very attractive to them. But one of the things or two of the things I’ve always been told is that when you see investors getting involved and when you see celebrities getting involved, then you can say that the industry is starting to increase, especially as this has come from nothing really back in 2008, something like that. And that’s what we’re seeing a lot in the US isn’t it with various things like under canvas being invested in significantly and opening lots more retreats and collective retreats as well. but also, you know, who did we have just recently some, you know, very big names, celebrities, who the Kardashians who have started going glamping. So do you think this will have an overall kind of upward trajectory trend on, on the industry as a whole, as we go forward
DAVID KORSE: Well, I think it’s two separate things. I think I’m looking at private equity or looking at real serious business investors who see the growth potential is probably the biggest signal that this is not a passing fancy, that it’s going to be around. It’s a morph and it’ll evolve. But, in my experience, equity investors are pretty careful and it doesn’t work all the time, but if they’re going to put millions of dollars into something they’re expecting a return and their own independent research usually says, this is a good idea. so that gives me great enthusiasm and optimism for the future of the sector. I think anytime a high profile celebrity as the Kardashians get involved with something, then you’re certainly going to get a boost from their base from their community. I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about the Kardashians.
DAVID KORSE: I’m not in their demographic. Although I used to be living in the same city they did, but we weren’t close. so it would then doing, it wouldn’t necessarily affect me, but if somebody that I did pay attention to, or I sort of identified with suddenly told me, be it a celebrity or anybody else. And I discovered it that way, I would pay more attention to it, at least check it out. So yeah, I think both things independently are going to be good and bode well. whether the Kardashians outweigh the institutional investors, I’m not sure.
SARAH RILEY: Well, you never know there might be one in the same thing that’s so successful. so obviously you, you are one of two parts of, the glamping show. So there’s the Glamping show in the US which you head up and then there’s the one in the UK as well. I’m involved in both. And they’re fantastic events, both very, very different in that because they’re unique because they, they are suited to the country in which they’re based. but you’ve had your own set of challenges and, because of the health crisis. And one of the things that we wanted to talk about or talk about, I suppose, is about your challenges at the moment for getting something which is traditionally a face to face a live in-person event and moving that to a new, possibly one-off possibly not virtual event. How has that been, tell me a bit more about that?
DAVID KORSE: it’s been an extraordinary adventure, I guess. virtual events have been around the exhibition and conference industry for over 20 years before the year 2000 people were developing software on the platforms. It’s just that nobody really cared for a very long time. people prefer face to face and touching and feeling back to experience a COVID change that there must be 30 or 40 new companies that did not exist six months ago. here in the States that have launched platforms for virtual events, just necessity is the mother of invention, I guess. we, we realized early on that we might not be able to hold the event what’s called would happen at that time. We were all in March, still a little naive about the scale of this whole thing and thought, Oh, by October it’ll be over, we’ll be fine. Would it become clearer that that was not necessarily going to happen?
DAVID KORSE: We did the research necessary to figure out the plan B hoping it would stay just in a drawer sometimes. but about, I guess it’s been about four or five, maybe six weeks ago. the venue in Colorado said I’m so sorry. Number one, right. As of this moment, we’re not allowed to hold an event with more than 50 people, whatever to our site is being used as an emergency field hospital, just in case. And there are hospital beds waiting, never been used, but just in case we don’t know when they’re going to be taken away. So that’s when we opened the jar and pulled out plan B. there are things about the virtual event, which will never be as good as face to face. And there are things about the virtual event that is so much better. it’s not, it’s not as much fun doing this from your home or office, as in going to Denver and staying in a hotel and meeting your friends or making you calm, meeting new colleagues, listening live and participating in a conference session, talking to exhibitors, walking through a structure, touching the fabric or the material and seeing the workmanship.
DAVID KORSE: It’s just face to face is how we are wired as human beings. and that works really well. And it worked really well as you saw October of last year, the virtual event, digital event, doesn’t allow some of those things to happen. Most of those things can’t happen, but what can happen is the engagement with the conference content it’s you and I sitting in our home offices is having this conversation, being able to consume the content and distil, ask questions, be it via chat, as opposed to raising your hand to be acknowledged. the exhibitors will still be there. It’ll be videos and photographs and copy, things to consume and at least make people aware of the different offerings that companies products and services they have. And they can be consumed a little bit more on your own schedule as opposed to the open hours from extra wire were those two or three days.
DAVID KORSE: but I think the biggest benefit to a racial event is accessibility. And I think that’s been born out by what’s happened so far. Last year are, as you remember, we set the bar very low for expectations for our first event. We said we thought we could get at least 200 glamping business people to Colorado. And we got 454 approximately, that showed up on site. as of last Sunday, we had 483 glamping, vistas people already registered for an event that isn’t taking place for six more weeks, because you don’t need to take three or four days out of office. You don’t need an aeroplane ticket or a hotel or an Uber driver or a bad, fast food meal someplace. You can consume it at your schedule and even our live stream conferences. If you, if it just isn’t convenient for you to consume it, once it’s been live-streamed, we will have recorded it and we’ll post it on demand.
DAVID KORSE: So you can look at an interim convenience or see it a second time. If you saw it the first time last year, we had people from 37 States who came to the 30, 33 States. I’m sorry. They came to the 40 States have registered people so far this year. And last year we had 11 other countries. And so far we have 33 other countries that are sending registrants to this virtual event. So from an attendee point of view, you could be in Zimbabwe, you can be in malicious, you can be in Abu Dhabi. You can be anywhere. It could be on the space station, I suppose and still participate. and as an exhibitor, you have the opportunity to reach a much larger audience and much more diverse audience than you would with people who could take the time and had the money to come to Denver.
DAVID KORSE: we prefer a face to face and we’ll get them. We have dates for the first week of October in 2021, assuming that there’s a vaccine that we get this thing handled, and we’re all able to get together face to face again. And even if we have to take precautions by separating the stands a bit or having wider aisles or masks, or we’ll do whatever we need to do, that’s still our preference. We think that the genie might be out of the bottle a little bit here with virtual. And I suspect you’ll see a lot of events, not just ours, not just glamping, but trade events around the world. We’ll go to sort of a hybrid format where they will still do their face to face event, but we’ll simultaneously broadcast elements. So while somebody is doing, sitting in the audience for a conference that’s being filmed and live-streamed to people who could not be there while the exhibit will have their stand and you can feel the materials. there are people who couldn’t get there, who could look at the digital portion of that and get the best of both worlds. So make it a little more complex for us, but a little more accessible for the community at large, essentially like commercial paid political election season here. I’m getting carried away. I’m sorry.
SARAH RILEY: You all forgiven David I think though, I think he’s great because, you know, as I’ve run my business across the world as an individual online, I know exactly how it is. And I’ve been doing this now for 10 years, and it’s great that you know, this is happening now that it’s, it is opening up to a lot more people who maybe can’t access the things available to in certain places in certain countries. And now they can do that. And yeah, it just, it just means that people are able to get the information, they need the expertise, they need, the knowledge they need, all of those things. but the great thing is as well that they can just attend these things in their pyjamas. So there’s no, there’s no need to get all, you know, suited and booted and where the best tie.
DAVID KORSE: It’s true. As I say, there are, there are, there are probably more advantages than disadvantages to a virtual or a digital event. but I still think we lose that unique opportunity, not just for looking at products and services, but just engaging with colleagues, meeting new colleagues. one of the things we’ll provide for the virtual event. we call the lobby, but it’s, it looks like a giant Facebook group wall. and everybody who comes in, Hey, I’m here and you have a chance to set up your profile and people can reach out and say, I’d like to chat with you. And you can say yes or no. Thank you. we have discussion groups by a topic area where somebody who wants to talk about wastewater management can go in and say, Hey, how did anybody have this problem I’m having How does your fix it Anybody have any advice So those interactions beyond just the conference session what’s opportunities are there. There’s just something, again, very human about sharing a cup of coffee or a cup of tea and chatting with someone face to face or engaging that spontaneous discussion group, as opposed to stepping into the chat room, if you will. So they each have features of the others don’t, but so far it’s looking as if we may actually be able to pull this off.
SARAH RILEY: Well, that’s fantastic. And one of the things that came to my mind for me, we’re talking about this was how a lot of people that I speak to in the UK and Europe and they’re talking about, oh, I’d love to get involved in the US market. But at the moment, it’s just a bit too soon for us to do this. And when we were talking about this, you said, well, this virtual event now is opening this up to people because they don’t have to pay for all these expenses to get to the trade show, the trade show, you know, they don’t have to move their structures all the way to, from Europe to the US you know, there are lots of opportunities here for also doing, as we were talking about before a bit of market research around new ideas that they’ve come up with new products, they’ve come up with, and they’re thinking about how would this be accepted in the US and, and, you know, would there be a licensee situation here that we could explore this opportunity hasn’t existed before where people at a very low cost can do that market research can explore whether this would be, or whether what they have their service or products would be of interest to the US market. And now you’re giving people the opportunity to do that. So that’s really an interesting, very interesting thing for a new business or businesses that are maybe expanding into this market. Is that something that you can see happening a lot
DAVID KORSE: Well, it’s happening already. We have a few exhibitors who have confirmed, already think of this is, this is imprecise, but it’s almost as if we’re holding an enormous business focus group. so let’s take the example. Somebody from, from Europe wants to come to the States and let’s assume they’re not bringing a structure. You’re not going to bring hundreds of square meters worth of stuff. They’re just going to take a nine square meter stand. And one person is going to come over. So the cost of the stand is easy. 2000 us dollars. There’s an aeroplane ticket and probably round trip to come back again. There are two or three or four nights in a hotel. There’s all the other teeny travel and entertainment that goes along with that. There’s a week out of the office for making the trip that you could be doing other things as well.
DAVID KORSE: so $2,000 for the stand $3,000 for an inexpensive ticket and hotel and stuff, forget the time out of the officer’s $5,000, to stand there for five, six, seven hours a day for, for a couple of days, and then fly home and make your notes. Now, for as little as a thousand dollars, there is no shipping. There’s no TA travel and entertainment. There’s no hotel, there’s no airfare. And whether you just have to say, Hey, we exist. Does anybody care Have you ever seen one of these before, whether you do it as branding or visibility exercise, or market research, or a little bit of all, we have at least one customer so far, that’s coming in specifically only looking for a partner. they manufacture a product. They want to still keep control of the quality of the manufacturing they have. They want to be able to license that technology to a distributor slash partner who will manufacture and distribute in the Americas.
DAVID KORSE: We’re North America, Mexico, Canada, and the US to start with, they don’t really care about meeting anybody. Who’s a glamping site operator or an owner. They want somebody to help them establish a US spearhead without having the expense of doing all that and starting a company and whatever it’s cost to do all that. So that’s their objective is to find distribution and a licensee or a partner. so whatever those objectives are, if somebody even thought about sticking their toe in the American market, cause it’s not just the US I cannot think of a more cost-effective way of doing it. And this is me being a commercial pitchman. Again, for that thousand dollars for the digital stand, it includes a full conference pass. So they or someone from their team can participate in all 11 conference sessions, ask questions, go to discussion groups, be in that digital lobby and interact and get a sense of what people are talking about it. It’s, I think it’s kind of a unique opportunity. Silver lining to Kobe, I guess, from the point of view of this, this community. So thanks for premium, but yeah, it’s, it’s one of the things that normally stops people from coming over because of the great expense.
SARAH RILEY: Absolutely. But, you know, it’s, it’s no problem at all bringing it up because, you know, I advise businesses and businesses. They’re asking me questions, how do I get into the American market And before now I was saying, we get on a plane and he comes with me. And when you go to the show, but you know, it just seemed like such a barrier because you were talking about one person attending and everyone inevitably has to go with more than one person. So it’s double those costs. And, you know, it just was too much for the barrier. And, and yet the attraction of finding out what’s going on in the US market, what’s actually happening with glamping. And how is it moving is, you know, I, I particularly, I have seen in your show last year that UK businesses already, they’re already one step ahead of everyone else already attending the show, for that very reason.
SARAH RILEY: So it’s really interesting to see how it’s all moving and how it’s all going. but the fantastic thing is that you’ve also been very generous and you’ve offered a, a discount code for attendees. So, I will get the link in the show notes and everything. So people can go there and have a look and see exactly what’s going on and where they need to go. But if they do want to take part in, in that they can just put in INSPIREDSAVE50 and it will give them a nice little kickback, there to reduce the cost. But I think it’s, you know, it’s something that as business owners, we do need to think about how we’re going to be able to ride the wave of what’s going on in the world at the moment. One of those things might be to look at other markets and expand into other markets.
DAVID KORSE: Again, the thing that’s so interesting to us is how much of our audience isn’t the United States. we, it’s, not every company can say that every country in Latin America, but it’s most of them and the Caribbean and Canada, of course, but we are, it almost makes me want to change the name from the glamping show the USA to the show Americas because now that it’s easier to get here to participate, we’re getting so much interest and glamping is a very, very big deal all throughout Latin America. particularly in, in Central America, it’s just, you know, Costa Rica’s of the world and, and believes in Guatemala, they see glamping as a really wonderful opportunity to increase tourism, increase tourism income, without having to find a way to build a gazillion dollar resort complex with two golf courses in Portugal equals in 24-hour room service, and still charge pretty interesting nightly rates.
DAVID KORSE: So I think anybody who’s thinking about this hemisphere, again, it’s pretty, whether they come just for the conference, and take advantage of your $50 discount code, which we’re happy to offer, or where they come into the exhibition and let people see how people respond to their product or service. It, it seems like a bit of a no brainer to me if I’m even thinking about it. Cause that’s easy for me to say as sort of the sales guys. So, we, if anybody’s interested, we’d be happy to take them through it and show them the sites and give them a demo. And we’re six weeks away. We probably somebody is going to participate in, probably need to know by the 1st of October, cause that gives us two weeks to help build out their digital booths before we go live on October 13th.
SARAH RILEY: Absolutely. Well, I’m sure that people will get in touch with you directly or follow the links in the show notes. And, you are obviously a very busy man, so I can hear your computer go off. It’s clearly a lot of people who need to get in touch with you so I will leave it there. But honestly, David, I think it’s a great show. It’s fantastic to see it growing every year, year on year. And I’m very excited to be involved in it and see where it goes now that it’s got this virtual element and just to see as well, how that virtual side of it, how it can actually reduce the size of the world, really, because that’s what it’s doing, isn’t it, it’s allowing us all to have access to something that we wouldn’t normally have access to. So if you know, there aren’t many positives that have come out of this worldwide situation, but hopefully, if it means we can work closer together and we can all take part in things we otherwise wouldn’t have been able to, then I’d say that that’s okay, isn’t it.
DAVID KORSE: It’s as I say, silver lining. I’m happy. Yeah.
SARAH RILEY: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much, David. And you take care of yourself and see you soon. So a reminder of a few links, if you want to attend the U S glamping show this year, all you need to do is go to HTTPS://GLAMPINGSHOW.US and it will give you the registration page. You can register for free, or if you want to attend the learning conference and have
SARAH RILEY: Access to that content, then you will be able to access a discount code, which is INSPIREDSAVE50. And that will give you a lovely little discount off of that. If you want some tools to help you launch a new business in this industry, then please download the tools I give absolutely for free from my website. You’ll find that on HTTPS://INSPIREDCOURSES.COM/TOOLS Also, if you want to just take a look at the show notes for this episode and follow all the links from there, then you can go to HTTPS://INSPIREDCAMPING.COM/032 as this is episode 32. Well stay safe, everyone, and hope you’ll come and hang out with me again soon.